Here with Dario Gil, thank you so much for meeting with me!
Thank you, It's a pleasure to be with you
So, PhD Graduate from MIT?
Yes
And now Director of IBM Research
Yes that's correct
Congratulations by the way. Just to kick things off, what
would be your favorite hobby, your favourite movie and your favorite food?
Well 1 and 3 are connected, my favorite hobby is cooking
for sure. I grew up in Madrid, Spain. So my family is huge into cooking, we cook
and when we're eating we talk about food and about what the next meal will be
haha. So anyways I like to cook, I really like to do many different kinds of
rice dishes from the southeast of Spain where my family is from
Awesome
And my favorite movie is The Godfather
Oh! Love it. The whole series?
Yeah. I like first one. Part 2 I like very much too
So, you went MIT to do your PhD in electrical engineering.
Looking back on it you, what made you decide to do a PhD?
Well when I was an undergraduate I really got interested
in nanotechnology of all things. I got fascinated by small things that I
couldn't see. I had the benefit of working with a professor who started
inspiring me and so I did some summer internship positions doing research. And
as I got into it I loved the idea of doing independent work and getting really
sophisticated about it. So I just wanted to continue, I wanted to keep studying,
I got the bug of research. I loved trying to discover new things because as an
undergraduate you're very focused on the learning and less on the applying it to
to do something interesting. So I thought I just want to continue doing this and
once I decided I never looked back. I never thought about it again. I said
that's what I'm going to do once I make a decision, thats it
Well that was my next question, was that the point that you
decided that research was wanted to do for your career then?
Well I decided that I wanted to go to grad school, then
after that you never know right? When most people go to grad school they think
that they're going to become a professor in academia. Then as you go into it you
see what it means to be a professor you know, there are plusses and there are
minuses. So at some point I decided that I loved research and I wanted to
continue doing it, but I just wanted to go outside. I didn't want to do it in
academia. There's not that many extraordinary research organizations in
industrial sector, IBM is arguably the finest and so that was my dream and I
said that's what I want to do. I want to go there
So you just wanted to work in a research environment that
had more business outcomes?
Yes, that and to be able to create things and have broader
impact. I liked the teaching dimension but I wanted to see things through and
not just be in the initial loop you know? 2
Then the second dimension was that I
was in the world of nano fabrication and lithography 3
- making small things - and the most advanced work happens in industry - with
Moore's Law and making chips - you just cannot do it at that scale in academia.
So I wanted to have that industry experience and then once I got into IBM, over
time I saw all the great things you can accomplish and so you know, I stayed
Haha well who could blame you. So tell us about your first
role when you first came in, how did you start?
I was hired as an individual technical contributor in a
group called the Advanced Lithography group, which is a mechanism by which you
can print the circuits that go into semiconductor chip and is the reason why we
have Moore's Law. So when I started there I got assigned to the next generation
of lithography systems and then two months after they asked me to look into this
obscure new approach to making chips and so I said sure, that sounds pretty
interesting. So I was lucky enough that a number of months later, the mainstream
approach sort of died and the thing that I was working on became the mainstream
method, immersion lithography 4. So doing this particular
technique, I started to
work with this company in the Netherlands called ASML 2. I led the team that built
the world's first microprocessor with immersion lithography and now that's how
every chip in the world is made. So I was like lucky in some way that I was the
new guy working on this stuff that other people didn't want to work on haha
Haha, well you can call it luck but sometimes it comes down
to being in the right position when the wave comes right?
That's true, exactly
So did that role have you starting in Europe or were you
still based in the US?
I've only worked in the United States. So after I finished
my the in 2003, 3 weeks later I joined IBM. And it was a tough year because I
moved and then not long after I had my first daughter, so she's 16 years old
now. So I went from grad school to IBM, moving into a new house, a new kid, a
new job. It's too much haha I don't recommend it to anybody. Too many things
haha
Haha I can imagine 5.
So would you be able to talk through your journey from that first role to where
you are today?
So actually when I joined, I didn't really like it. It was
kind of tough because when I was in grad school I had my own lab, I had a lot of
autonomy, I could order whatever I wanted, do whatever I wanted, I was happy.
Then I came into IBM and it was tough right? All these rules and mechanisms to
learn, I didn't know how everything worked, so it took me a little bit to figure
out - how do I get things done here? So one of the things that helped me
discover that I wanted to be a leader was when I started working with the
outside, like this company in the Netherlands, ASML. I started to appreciate the
amount of respect that others had for IBM. And even though I didn't understand
it yet, I started to think wow well there must be a lot of good stuff going on
here. So I started getting to know more people, connecting with other scientists
in Almaden, starting to work together and I soon discovered that I enjoyed that
aspect of leadership a lot, bringing teams together to accomplish a goal. So
once we enabled the success of that project I said - this is really for me, this
is what I want to do, I want to lead technical teams. So I had an awesome senior
manager at the time and he really believed in me and he said you know we have
this manager position that's opened up and you've only been here a year but we
believe in you
This was after your first year?
Yes
Wow
And so I became a manager a year later and I was like wow,
this is fantastic. So ever since then I've been always been given wonderful
opportunities to continue to progress. I did that and then later I became a
senior manager and I started to get more responsibility. So another key moment
for me, IBM has a wonderful program - particularly salient in the research
division - called the technical assistant program. These are rotational
assignments where you get to spend a year shadowing somebody and learning. And I
did that with the vice president of science and technology. This was six years
into working at IBM. That was transformative for me because I got to see how the
plane is flown you know? I got to see all these different dimensions. So I went
from there, leaving my science, technology and physical sciences background and
going into a totally new area. I went into smart grids. This was at the time
that smart planet was launched, and so I went into that group to become a
manager with two people, in this totally new area. So I took that and we grew
it. I was tasking risks and by going somewhere else new I kept having different
experiences. So at the beginning of my IBM career I used to be the nano guy or
the lithography guy, then the science and technology guy, then the energy guy
and then after a while and I was no longer defined by any of that. People
started seeing me differently, they started just seeing me as a good technical
person. A good scientist that can leap across different areas. So then ever
since then I have had many many roles leading all the different fields and
aspects of research. So I think it was this that eventually allowed me to get to
the current position
Congratulations by the way
Thank you. Thank you
What was that transition like, going from being highly
technical to managerial and overviewing a wide range of different areas?
Well in the dimension of management first and foremost
you've got to like people. You've got to care about them, really you're there
for them. I mean my role as a manager and a leader is just to serve the
scientists and the researchers, they are the ones that do all the work. So first
you start with that and then I think there is a methodology to conduct projects
successfully. I think there are 4 dimensions that are really important. Number 1
is that you have to inspire people - where are we going? You've got to have a
vision and you have to communicate and be able to articulate where the team is
going. The second aspect is the ability to build teams, to be able to select the
right people and bring them together. The third dimension, you've got to give
them an infrastructure to succeed. So for example, if you are in the world of
quantum computing they've got to have cryostats, laboratories and fabrication.
You've got to give them the resources to succeed. Fourthly, you've got to have a
sustainable business model. You have got to pay the bills, it has to work. Now
it sounds very obvious that you need those 4 things but many many people I see
do a few of them but not all 4. They have a wonderful vision, but a poor team or
they have a great team and no vision, a vision and a team but no money. You need
all 4, doesn't matter whether the project is small or big. My view is that this
methodology works. So that's a lesson I learned when I was doing my TA rotation
assignment and I've applied it ever since. Think about those dimensions and if
you are spending your time making sure you are doing all of them. That is my
recipe
Well cooking is your favourite hobby haha. There's obviously
so much exciting research going on right now, is there a field that really
fascinates you in particular?
Well I would say the field of artificial intelligence in
general, the opportunity to be able to create capability to make progress
against that goal is phenomenal. AI, it's just one of the grandest things we
could imagine right? But what motivates me is to achieve it in the context of
helping people. I am a very humanistic person, I like technology but in the end
I really feel very strongly that we are at the center of this all and technology
is just a tool to help us. So it needs to be grounded in that philosophy. So I
feel very strongly about that idea, Ginni talks a lot about stewardship and the
importance of doing this in a thoughtful fashion for the world. So I'm
fascinated by AI, I also love quantum. I love it intellectually, I love
technically, I just love it
It's been a recurring theme, a lot of people that I have
spoken to have said quantum is what they are most excited about
I just think it is one of those things that only happens
every 50 years. It's just an amazing moment in history that we are in and the
team is phenomenal
Yes! When you put the long span of human history into
perspective, we really are in a special moment in time right now
Yes exactly, and even in other areas. I admire and am
incredibly fascinated about what's happening in biology. Computational biology
and genomics and the implications it will have is absolutely incredible. So I
think that intersection of quantum, physics, biology and the world of
mathematics and artificial intelligence will be absolutely transformative
It's such an exciting time
It's very exciting
Which one of those fields do you think will have the biggest
impact on our lives?
All those three. I mean just imagine the implications of
genomics, biology and health. Just imagine the implications of using quantum to
develop a future generation of materials and what that could mean for batteries
or new fertilizers. Just imagine the implications for knowledge and dealing with
complexity with artificial intelligence helping us. I just think it will be
these pillars that are going to shape our future
This one might be a bit more far fetched, is there anything
more on a 50 year timeline - maybe taking a holiday to Mars or the ability to
cryogenically freeze yourself for example - that excites you about our future?
You know I think our challenge is not going to be that we
don't have great technology, it's going to be to make sure that we're smart
enough to put it to the service of all of us. Managing it right will be the key
thing. I'm not one of these guys that wants escape Earth, I'm committed to here
haha
You're happy where you are haha
I just want to bring humanities and the human experience
together and I think that the technology and science should be at the service of
us and not the other way around. So I wish that we have enough wisdom and enough
governance where we can put it in its proper context, that it's really for us
all and that it doesn't become a race, or a weapon that humans use against each
other
Making sure it becomes a positive thing
Yeah. That we put it in its proper context. I'm not a
technological determinist, I just want democratic societies and that governance
first
Absolutely. When the day comes that you will look back on
your career, what will be the one thing that you want to be able to say that you
were able to do?
I think that quantum has probably been what I have been
most involved in and I really want to see it through. I think that would be the
one thing, bringing forth quantum computers to the world
It's a good answer haha. If you could go back and speak to a
younger version of yourself, is there anything you would tell yourself with what
you know now?
I would say to worry less about what others think. I grew
up in a family where my mother is extremely loving but my father - who is a
fantastic person as well - is very authoritarian. So I became very susceptive to
criticism, I was always worried. I am always concerned with what someone thinks
when sometimes I shouldn't. I feel like it is a bit of emotional baggage that I
had
It's okay we all have some of it
haha I know but it is just unnecessary. So I would tell
myself just ignore that and really focus on doing a great job with my work and
my teams. I am better at it now but that's what I would tell myself
If you could recommend one book to somebody what would it
be?
Oh boy. Just 1?
Haha, well you can rattle off a few if you like
I would recommend a couple of things. So in the world of
physics and science, I have always loved reading Richard Feynman. His lectures,
the character of physical law, his stories of becoming a scientist and surely
you're joking Mr. Feynman. think his lectures are inspiring, so if you are a
person who is inspired about being a scientist those lectures are wonderful. In
the realm of literature, for short stories I love Jorge Luis Borges. He is a
famous writer from Argentina and arguably one of the world's greatest short
story writers. They are just fantastic stories which still have connection to
the world of mathematics. I love that. To continue on the latin theme, I think
100 years of solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez is the best novel written in the
21st century in spanish so I would encourage everyone to read it. It is about
the world of magical realism, it is very beautiful
Sounds like I have got a few things to look up myself haha.
Dario, thank you so much
Thank you
💡 Key Messages
Here are my key takeaways from the podcast.
- Seek Shadowing opportunities - One of the pivotal points in Dario's career and development was shadowing someone in a position that he was looking to move into for a full year. Dario said that this allowed him to really see how the plane was flown, or the ship was steered, or ah, yeh
- Make your preferences known - Dario stated that once he realised he wanted to go down the managerial track that he let his manger know. It may sound simple but it is extremely important to make your aspirations and preferences known to those around you so that they can help foster your growth
- Take risks and move into different areas - By constantly taking risks and moving into new areas, Dario was able to transition from being known for being good in a specific area to being known just generally as a great scientist and a great leader. This was one of the key factors which led to him becoming the Director of IBM Research
- Worry less - I think we can all do this, pretty simple. Focus on doing a great job, building good relationships and enjoying the ride
- We live in an exciting time - The intersection of quantum, AI, biology will completely transform our lives. Quantum and AI will empower our ability to perform computational genomics and create new materials at a level we have never experienced. This will have huge implications on health, engineering and pretty much just anything imaginable. Our lives are going to be very exciting, which is always a plus
- Read everything - Dario obviously loves to read. I myself am going to look into the Richard Feynman material before attempting some of his spanish recommendations
About Dario Gill
Dr. Dario Gil is the Director of IBM Research, one of the world’s largest and most influential corporate research labs. The research division of IBM is a global organization with over 3,000 researchers across 12 laboratories and 21 locations devoted to advancing the frontiers of information technology. He is the 12th Director in its 74 year history. Prior to his current position, Dr. Gil was the Chief Operating Officer of IBM Research and the Vice President of AI and Quantum Computing, areas in which he continues to have broad responsibilities across IBM. Under his leadership, IBM was the first company in the world to build programmable quantum computers and make them universally available through the cloud. A passionate advocate of collaborative research models, he co-chairs the MIT-IBM Watson AI Lab, a pioneering industrial-academic laboratory with a portfolio of more than 50 projects focused on advancing fundamental AI research to the broad benefit of industry and society. Dr. Gil received his Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from MIT.